Во-первых, это всего лишь перевод, а во-вторых, в данном конкретном переводе - гет))
24. Зюбр2019/12/24 14:07
[ответить]
>>20.замполит
>
> .....вдруг потёк понос!....
Яркая характеристика слэшевого творчества Лыжиной Светланы.)))
23.Удалено написавшим. 2019/12/21 22:54
22. Bella2019/12/22 00:52
[ответить]
>>19.Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна
>>>18.Bella
>>>>16.Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна
>>"Layla"
A metaphor
>
>But in Eastern poetry there were no custom to call a man by a woman name. "Layla" means that the beloved is a female. And if the beloved person is compared to Yusuf, Isa and so on, it means that the beloved is a male.
It is called similes. It doesn't matter the gender, what matters is the quality. "Oh you sauntering Leyla..." (G. 38), "Oh you who makes me lose my mind while you walk so gracefully". Something like that.
Also, in G. 42, he writes "if you stroll forth, your body's seductive sway will kill - yet, one kind word from you will grant Avni life" (the thing about the mouth of Jesus who ressurect those who died). Could be the same idea/person: someone who saunters (seductive sway) like Leyla....
Oh, and in G. 38 he also uses the word "dostum", "friend" for addressing the recipient of the poem. Im not sure, but I dont see it as a way to address women....
>>The Sultan of Roses can be a woman or a man!
>But what the people in the sultan's court should think? They know that Gülşah is the name of Mehmed's wife. And what Gülşah herself should think?
Prof. Nur Dogan talks many times about "tevriye", or double meaning, or ambiguity. This is all about Mehmed's way of writing. It can be Gülshah Hatum, or can be the king of roses. It can be Layla, or just someone (female or male) that has Layla's qualities.
Exactly because the Turkish language does not have gender differentiation, Mehmed (and others) used that in his favour. Everything can and need to be ambiguous. And Mehmed says a few times that he doesn't care that everyone knows about his love. I dont know if this is a pattern in poetry, or if he really meant that.
Also, we are talking about slightly feminine males, eunuchs even. I myself think many are about Radu (ok, you can criticize me!), Radu and his long hair, his slightly feminine gait, and seductive charm, albeit of Dacian blood! Wow, imagine! "You sauntering Layla, you drove me mad in agony's desert"!
21. * (sergeevna2@yandex.ru) 2019/12/21 22:34
[ответить]
>>20.замполит
> когда хлебаю утром из стакана
Забавно получилось))
Но гостей моих, пожалуйста, не обижайте.
20. замполит2019/12/21 22:24
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когда хлебаю утром из стакана
я вижу только Лыжину Светлану
и ветерок струится между кос
..... а вот не надо рифмовать, что вдруг потёк понос!....
19. * (sergeevna2@yandex.ru) 2019/12/21 22:17
[ответить]
>>18.Bella
>>>16.Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна
>>>>15.Isa Bela
>"Layla" is a character in a famous poem, is she not? I believe that here such a name is used as a metaphor (is it the right linguistic figure?) of a loved one who turns the lover into a madman.
But in Eastern poetry there were no custom to call a man by a woman name. "Layla" means that the beloved is a female. And if the beloved person is compared to Yusuf, Isa and so on, it means that the beloved is a male.
>The Sultan of Roses can be a woman or a man!
But what the people in the sultan's court should think? They know that Gülşah is the name of Mehmed's wife. And what Gülşah herself should think?
18. Bella2019/12/21 21:43
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>>16.Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна
>>>15.Isa Bela
>>>>14.Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна
>
>>Well, and I am absolutely sure that all his ghazals are for a male.
>It's absolutely possible that most of his ghazals are for a male, but not all of them. For example, in ghazal #38 he calls his love by name - Layla, it's the name of a woman.
"Layla" is a character in a famous poem, is she not? I believe that here such a name is used as a metaphor (is it the right linguistic figure?) of a loved one who turns the lover into a madman.
>>And in ghazal #7 we see the same situation. He mentions "a letter for Gülşah". Gülşah is the name of Mehmed's second wife. Prof. Nur Dogan translates it literally - as a "rose sultan" - and says that this ghazal is for a male. But if Mehmed mentions "rose sultan", of course he remembers the name of his wife - it can't be just a coincidence.
No coincidence! You know that Gül ve Bülbül is a famous metaphor in love poems. Gül, the rose, is the beloved that thrills but hurts Bülbül, the nightingale, or poet. The Sultan of Roses can be a woman or a man!
>
>>The thing is that Mehmed II is a National symbol for Turks... He is untouchable.
>Of course)) But Prof. Nur Dogan wrote his book and it really helps in spite of everything. Thanks God, this book exists!
Yea, I join you! Blessed be prof. Nur Dogan.
17.Удалено написавшим. 2019/12/21 21:40
16. * (sergeevna2@yandex.ru) 2019/12/21 14:34
[ответить]
>>15.Isa Bela
>>>14.Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна
>>>>13.Bella
>>>It's easy if you take the ghazal #1.
>>You're right! I can find this word in ghazal #1... But in Turkish translation of this ghazal I can't find this word. Why?
>We cant come to conclusions solely because of his translation work -- there are incoherencies...
Of course we can't. That's why I'll pay my attention to the way he translates this word in different ghazals.
>Well, and I am absolutely sure that all his ghazals are for a male.
It's absolutely possible that most of his ghazals are for a male, but not all of them. For example, in ghazal #38 he calls his love by name - Layla, it's the name of a woman. And in ghazal #7 we see the same situation. He mentions "a letter for Gülşah". Gülşah is the name of Mehmed's second wife. Prof. Nur Dogan translates it literally - as a "rose sultan" - and says that this ghazal is for a male. But if Mehmed mentions "rose sultan", of course he remembers the name of his wife - it can't be just a coincidence.
>And, you know, in G. 42 --- "one kind word from you will grant Avni life" --- it repeats the idea of the life-giving lips/the mouth of Jesus. That is, a male, like the other ghazals with this image.
Oh! That's a very interesting idea! Thanks for sharing it.
>Have you noticed that Mehmed uses the word "eflâk" in Ghazal 27? Check the meaning of this word eflâk, and let's reason together about that :))
My dictionary says that it means: 1) heavens, 2) fate, chance.
I haven't translated ghazal #27 into Russian yet but now I really want to translate :))
>The thing is that Mehmed II is a National symbol for Turks... He is untouchable.
Of course)) But Prof. Nur Dogan wrote his book and it really helps in spite of everything. Thanks God, this book exists!